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Post by theculturalattache on Jul 1, 2019 23:22:51 GMT
I dropped the yokes 20 mm and it made a big difference,felt much better.
Problem is I was bottoming out to much so have gone back to stock until I get stiffer springs.
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mario
Full Member
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Post by mario on Jul 2, 2019 7:53:51 GMT
He reckons the geometry is all wrong in standard form. I would agree with Dave on that! In standard form the rear sits low and the front sits high, hence it loves to wheelie when in stock trim, the front end has very little load on it out of the box. Getting the load distribution more balanced front & rear certainly makes a huge difference to how the bike feels.
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mario
Full Member
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Post by mario on Jul 2, 2019 7:55:12 GMT
I dropped the yokes 20 mm and it made a big difference,felt much better. Problem is I was bottoming out to much so have gone back to stock until I get stiffer springs. How much do you weigh? What sag numbers do you get at the moment? Reducing the air gap may be enough to prevent bottoming out if sag is set correctly already.
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Post by manboon on Jul 2, 2019 20:35:07 GMT
Piotr, you went the same day as me.
Better check they didn’t use the same sheet and just stick my moniker on the top left hand corner.
🤪
Best value in my opinion @ £40 inc vat.
Joking. 🤡
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piotr
Junior Member
Posts: 39
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Post by piotr on Jul 2, 2019 20:39:16 GMT
I'm not suspension expert😥, bike is steering much better but still is not good as tuonov4😂. Should I spend 700£ on rearshock or 700 on decat and remap😂.
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Post by exuptoy on Jul 2, 2019 22:02:50 GMT
Just copied this from the FZ forum after he used BJs settings.
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piotr
Junior Member
Posts: 39
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Post by piotr on Jul 2, 2019 22:42:10 GMT
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mario
Full Member
Posts: 72
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Post by mario on Jul 3, 2019 6:27:41 GMT
Just copied this from the FZ forum after he used BJs settings. The setting from BJ's video are not that great, I tried them. For the track, maybe, for the road, over damped. Not to mention they set up static sag only with no rider sag. At what point is the bike going to ride itself? Answer is never, so static sag far less important than rider sag and should only be used as a guide to help identify if the correct springs are installed after rider sag is set. After initially trying their settings (with rider sags, not static sags) and it did make a big difference over stock, but that was due to the additional weight transfer onto the front with their settings. Apart from that 1 good thing (extra load on the front) it felt very unstable at even legal speeds. Slight gust of wind nearly started a tank slapper due to the bike being so over damped it couldn't absorb the bumps in the road. The tyre was effectively having to work as the suspension. So those settings in that video are to be taken with a very large pinch of salt from my own experience with them. I have since continued to setup the bike and got to a point where I don't think there is much more I can do to make it better in stock trim. Next step is a respring, then a revalve.
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Post by exuptoy on Jul 3, 2019 8:27:08 GMT
To be honest, with the K-Tech rear and BJs settings at the front PLUS a 10mm drop at the front I am more than happy. Riding style also plays a part and rider weight. Each to their own eh?
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mario
Full Member
Posts: 72
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Post by mario on Jul 3, 2019 10:25:05 GMT
Agreed, suspension is a very personal thing! One mans "dream setup" is another mans "nightmare setup". Like you say, weight, riding style & the roads you ride on make a huge difference to what feels good for you vs what doesn't. However in terms of rider sag vs static sag...there is no "feel" to that. Sag is about setting the suspension to work within it's proper range, not too high in the stroke, not too low. Until the bike can ride itself, setting static sag only is meaningless, because it does not tell you the working range of the suspension when you add a rider onto the bike who could way between 50-120kg....
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Post by theculturalattache on Jul 3, 2019 15:21:25 GMT
I weigh approx 220 plus gear and have the preload at one turn from max.
Will reducing the air gap stop it bottoming?
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Post by exuptoy on Jul 3, 2019 20:25:33 GMT
If going to the extent of having the forks off to reduce the air gap I'd just throw a set of springs at it. Less than £100 fitted if you can get the forks off. firefoxracing.co.uk/fork-servicing/Spend £599 and get them to Ohlins Rep them!
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mario
Full Member
Posts: 72
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Post by mario on Jul 3, 2019 22:00:42 GMT
I weigh approx 220 plus gear and have the preload at one turn from max. Will reducing the air gap stop it bottoming? 1 turn from max? What were your rider sag readings with that kind of preload? If rider sag was correct with 1 turn from max the static sag would have been way off on stock springs, so yeah, you would need stiffer springs. Smaller air gap can help, but not if the springs are way off. Air gap is more for fine tuning. Where abouts are you based? If you’re near me I can install the springs for you & set it up. Just did an MT-10 touring today actually.
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Post by theculturalattache on Jul 4, 2019 22:16:54 GMT
First I set the suspension as in the BJ blog which made an improvement. Then I dropped the yokes 20mm as in the moss video and that made a big improvement,but was bottoming out. So then I added preload to help the bottoming problem but it still bottoms. So my guess is I need stiffer springs. Ain't gotta a clue about the air gap as I'am still struggling with the basics! Which is why I watch dave moss videos. I live near Heathrow.
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mario
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Post by mario on Jul 4, 2019 22:41:34 GMT
First thing I will say is go back to basics. Altering the fork position will alter the horizontal & vertical centre of gravity, it will reduce rake, reduce trail, alter dynamic loading, etc. It has massive implications on the geometry of the bike and is not something you should be adjusting on a whim without first setting up the basics.
I am up in Scotland, so I can’t do it for you, but I will explain the methodology I go through. First, return the bike to stock settings to get a baseline to work from. Next, set the RIDER SAGS, not static sags as per BJ’s video, until bikes can ride themselves, static sags are meaningless. As an example, a bike with static sag of say 22mm will not ride the same when you have a 100kg rider on it vs a 50kg rider. Hence, set the sags for you, the rider.
Aim for approx 35mm on the front & 30mm on the rear as a good solid starting point, depending on the where you end up in the adjuster range will determine if the springs are suitable.
Next, adjust rebound and compression damping, this is really something you do by feel, so I can’t explain it on a forum post, but Dave Moss does show you roughly how it’s done in his videos.
Once you have that done, you have a baseline, if the springs were too stiff or too soft based on where your settings ended up after you got the rider sag setup, then look at respringing the bike.
It is at this point, and only this point, once the bike has been correctly sprung and you have a reasonable damping adjustment that you should decide on next steps. These steps may well be to drop the yokes, but not 20mm at a time, adjustments of just 3-5mm can be noticed. You might not feel the need to even drop the yokes once you get on the right track. The next step may be to get the suspension revalved to provide better adjustment to dial in the damping better and reduce compromise, etc.
However, until you do the basics (sags, baseline damping setup & respring if needed) I would seriously recommend avoiding geometry changes when you don’t understand what they really do just because someone online said it worked for them, regardless of who they are.
Suspension setup is not black magic, it’s not a dark art, it’s a technical discipline just like engineering and you have to be methodical and precise in your approach to yield the best results, but blindly taking settings from multiple sources and mashing them together is not how to go about it.
Not trying to be harsh, but I’m just telling it as it is.
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