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Post by javaguru on Aug 9, 2018 12:04:09 GMT
I "catch your drift" (TC reference ) T31 is obviously not a trackday tyre, but they run them on CBR600's at Ron Haslam race school. I remember it was either Ron or some other personality in the sport that said today's sport touring tyres are way better than what they used to race on back in the days. So yes, everything can be raced. I get around 7000km from the S21 front, 3500km from a S21 rear, and around 5500 from a T31 (which is pretty lousy for a ST tyre). I once got 9400 km out of a Metzeler Roadtec 01, but that was on the FZ1. My friend with a less tuned FZ1 , and he rides far less agressively, gets around 5-6000 km out of the Roadtec 01, but that's 2 years later, maybe the rubber mixture has changed. I've thought about trying a set of Angel GT-s but I'd have to start building confidence all over again, I'm not exactly Casey Stoner .. Aah, and another thing, I had a big moment a couple of months ago, with losing the front S21 in a bend, but it re-gripped. It could have been a slippery spot. Knowing that in the back of your head is priceless. A better shock is on my list. Maybe I can sneak one into the house renovation budget ... and then a better tyre changer
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Post by javaguru on Aug 9, 2018 12:19:09 GMT
I just did a track day with the S21 front and T31EVO rear. It went better than expected for the most part, full lean, full throttle, knee down, lapped even some of the instructors, but I had a big moment on an uphill gearchange when I dumped the clutch a bit too fast and the rear wheel stepped out. TC saved my ass, literally. I believe the S21R wouldn't have slipped. It was good to have enough rubber left for the rest of the season though. Sounds like you're a lot quicker than me - are you saying you can genuinely go full throttle when cranked right over and just let the TC do the hard work? I just haven't had the bottle to try this on the track - I still ride like I haven't got TC and feed the throttle in gently. Well, take that with a pinch of salt. It's not full throttle in every bend, that would be plain stupid. I've adopted the "Mantequilla" style (butter smooth) so I roll on, not brutalize the throttle, because I don't want to upset the tyre (and chassis). Another thing is that I try to use the extra torque the crossplane gives, and not be at too high revs mid-corner, that way you can roll on the throttle pretty well without risking having the rear stepping out. Even with TC that stepping out is going to upset the chassis, and that leaves brown marks in your underwear. I had to build up to that tempo for a couple of sessions before I knew approximately how hard I can ride it. And the third session, my instructor told me that if I keep up riding like that it's a matter of time before I crash, because I was riding at the limit of my ability. So I dialed back like 20%, tried to look further ahead, have better lines through the bends, and keep feeding the throttle at mid-range while leaned over, and it turned out to be the faster way. So it's not like I'm riding at the limit of traction, and I rely on TC. I ride at 80 of my ability, and work that midrange. If I happen to lose traction, TC will probably catch it since I'm not at the limit, and hopefully I'll remember what I did wrong next time I'm visiting that corner.
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Post by X Plane on Aug 9, 2018 15:29:05 GMT
I "catch your drift" (TC reference ) T31 is obviously not a trackday tyre, but they run them on CBR600's at Ron Haslam race school. I remember it was either Ron or some other personality in the sport that said today's sport touring tyres are way better than what they used to race on back in the days. So yes, everything can be raced. I get around 7000km from the S21 front, 3500km from a S21 rear, and around 5500 from a T31 (which is pretty lousy for a ST tyre). I once got 9400 km out of a Metzeler Roadtec 01, but that was on the FZ1. My friend with a less tuned FZ1 , and he rides far less agressively, gets around 5-6000 km out of the Roadtec 01, but that's 2 years later, maybe the rubber mixture has changed. I've thought about trying a set of Angel GT-s but I'd have to start building confidence all over again, I'm not exactly Casey Stoner .. Aah, and another thing, I had a big moment a couple of months ago, with losing the front S21 in a bend, but it re-gripped. It could have been a slippery spot. Knowing that in the back of your head is priceless. A better shock is on my list. Maybe I can sneak one into the house renovation budget ... and then a better tyre changer Get ya on the building confidence with tyres (and bike though bike has become / is a known) thing. I Had a slight front end transfer slide on a strip of gravel mid bend and the Angel GT regripped and all worked out ok after it side sweeped and slide across, bugger, road gravel. I’ve 6000 miles done on the front Angel GT (you do the kms conversions ) and it’s grand 100% legal but Its sides are worn and wearing off more than the middle and I can feel its altered profile. I Think that 8000 miles is easy achievable by some but and by me it be off the bike before 7500 miles. The Rear Angel GT for me worn evenly. I think rear GT is good 4500 for me may be 5500 miles plus plus for some. Something in between the S21 and the Angel GT would be heaven for me for distance and grip. The Angel GT was / is great especially in Spain. Though at home the bike, I’ll not say it slides more but, it, I’ll say it moves around more like it skits skips skims about a tiny bit more, if that makes sense, it’s never weak, dangerous or bad in fact good and for me it is grand on the road; even fast. A S21 is more sucked and stuck on to the ground, it’s almost too gooey gluey grippy some times as the dead stuck feeling can some times feel boring or a bit lifeless but it’s real good and of course brilliant and super sure for sure and magic if ya go go go for it on a favourite (closed ) road(s) they ride fab. However, the S21 wear on biggish trips is on the borderline for me. Not sure what I’ll go with next; it may be something that I’ve not tried before. So as I’ve not as many big Trip miles on the cards, it more like 100 mile blasts spins out; which means I can be open to a bigger choice for next tyre change. I’ll look and check in another 1000 miles or so.
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Post by dangermouse on Aug 9, 2018 18:55:26 GMT
Something between the S21 and the Angel GT would be heaven for me for distance and grip wise. That's pretty much where the Avons I keep raving about are - and they're only ~£160 a set. The grip of a sports tyre with (almost) the mileage of a full GT tyre. My Avon 3D ultra sports have now done four track days and 3,500 miles - and still look less than half worn - got another track day on Monday - crapping myself coz there was only space left in the fast group (gulp) the front tyre is immense, feels very, very sticky - which is what I like about Avons they are generally designed to wear in pairs so the front is usually more sticky than the rear, the only front end slide I've had was ironically on the O/E S20s - but I think that was more of a problem with the road rather than the tyre.
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Post by dangermouse on Aug 9, 2018 19:08:05 GMT
so I roll on, not brutalize the throttle, because I don't want to upset the tyre (and chassis). Another thing is that I try to use the extra torque the crossplane gives, and not be at too high revs mid-corner, that way you can roll on the throttle pretty well without risking having the rear stepping out. I found you can have pretty scary moments even rolling on in a tall gear like this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn-NrsMiPF8Half throttle, half revs in 4th (I had a 1 tooth larger front sprocket so 4th is a genuine 165mph gear - ie taller than top on an MT-10!) my mate highsided his GSXR750 on the same corner the very next session (after witnessing my "moment" as he was behind me on this video!) this is what spurred me into buying an MT-10 - I'm too old for catching high-sides at 90+mph and wanted TC and ABS.
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Post by javaguru on Aug 10, 2018 10:37:00 GMT
so I roll on, not brutalize the throttle, because I don't want to upset the tyre (and chassis). Another thing is that I try to use the extra torque the crossplane gives, and not be at too high revs mid-corner, that way you can roll on the throttle pretty well without risking having the rear stepping out. I found you can have pretty scary moments even rolling on in a tall gear like this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn-NrsMiPF8Half throttle, half revs in 4th (I had a 1 tooth larger front sprocket so 4th is a genuine 165mph gear - ie taller than top on an MT-10!) my mate highsided his GSXR750 on the same corner the very next session (after witnessing my "moment" as he was behind me on this video!) this is what spurred me into buying an MT-10 - I'm too old for catching high-sides at 90+mph and wanted TC and ABS. We don't know what kind of tyres he had on that bike, and how worn they were .. That kind of behavior isn't normal
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Post by dangermouse on Aug 10, 2018 17:28:09 GMT
I found you can have pretty scary moments even rolling on in a tall gear like this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn-NrsMiPF8Half throttle, half revs in 4th (I had a 1 tooth larger front sprocket so 4th is a genuine 165mph gear - ie taller than top on an MT-10!) my mate highsided his GSXR750 on the same corner the very next session (after witnessing my "moment" as he was behind me on this video!) this is what spurred me into buying an MT-10 - I'm too old for catching high-sides at 90+mph and wanted TC and ABS. We don't know what kind of tyres he had on that bike, and how worn they were .. That kind of behavior isn't normal
Oh yes we do, it was me on my ol' Busa with Dunlop Qualifiers 3s which had done one previous trackday and about 500 road miles. That slip was on session 2 in good conditions - tyres nice and warm after four or five laps.
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Post by X Plane on Aug 29, 2018 19:38:29 GMT
Gone RS I did... From my early first 50 miles impression I’d say the Michelin Power RS I have fitted are the new S21 and then some . S21 gripped well but felt a bit dead in comparison. The RS is gripper with feel and much better profile livelier steering and turn / down in. Big bonus is their bump absorbing qualities. Quality tyre describes them well .
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Post by X Plane on Aug 31, 2018 17:50:28 GMT
I’ve gone all Michelin Power RS. They’re better than the good S21. Brilliant profile, nice on turn in, great feel, super rail round grip and good over bumps. I’m Hoping rear will see about 3000 miles if so then their brilliance will be top notch. These tyres really suit the big MT.
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Post by dangermouse on Sept 1, 2018 9:40:07 GMT
I'll give the RS's a try at some point simply because I like the look of them (hangs head in shame!) my Avon ultra's have now done 3,500 miles and 7 - yes seven trackdays and are now close to the rear markers (I rode home from most trackdays without reseting tyre pressure which probably accelerated wear), only prob is we're heading towards winter and I suspect the Avons will be better in the wet than the RS's. Could just stick a new rear Avon on (dirt cheap) and wait until trackday season starts again for a shiny new set of RS's. Another temptation is Michelin have also revised the Pilot Road to remove some of the ridiculous amount of edge siping, the Pilot Road 5 front is now more like an RS near the edges and will probably have enough grip for occasional trackdays but with brilliant road performance and longevity.
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Post by javaguru on Sept 1, 2018 22:07:53 GMT
We don't know what kind of tyres he had on that bike, and how worn they were .. That kind of behavior isn't normal
Oh yes we do, it was me on my ol' Busa with Dunlop Qualifiers 3s which had done one previous trackday and about 500 road miles. That slip was on session 2 in good conditions - tyres nice and warm after four or five laps.
scary
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Post by X Plane on Sept 4, 2018 16:56:23 GMT
My new Power RS tyres are allowing me (making me hehe) run into bends at higher entry speeds 😁. That’s how good they are and how much confindence I put in them 🙂.
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Post by javaguru on Sept 4, 2018 17:58:53 GMT
My new Power RS tyres are allowing me (making me hehe) run into bends at higher entry speeds 😁. That’s how good they are and how much confindence I put in them 🙂. I guess I'll wait a month or so until your new rs-s are shot, so I can see how many kms you can get out of the rear
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Post by javaguru on Sept 4, 2018 18:03:43 GMT
My new Power RS tyres are allowing me (making me hehe) run into bends at higher entry speeds 😁. That’s how good they are and how much confindence I put in them 🙂. Or maybe I'll still buy some cheap T30 evos on sale, I got the last rear for like 110€, which is pretty cheap compared to the 260€ s21r
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ash
Junior Member
Should know better.
Posts: 13
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Post by ash on Oct 26, 2018 22:45:31 GMT
I had a set of the Dunlop Roadsmart 3's on my Kawasaki Z1000sx and they were brilliant on a jaunt around Euroland, 2800 miles with no drama, so a set will be going on the 10 soon. I would second the comments about the PR4's on a larger bike, the PR5's seem to have less smaller grooves that don't go all the way to the edge of the tyre, so they may be better, I'm not a big Michelin fan anyway after a rather big slide on an Aprilia that ended with sore nuts, but no damage to the bike.
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